WTF: Blue Eyed Crossed
We Talk Friday
(WTF)
This is a semi-regular series that I will run on Fridays to hold discussions on a current topic from the week gone. The aim is to keep them light and conversational, though some might be heavier - regardless of the content topic itself though, just have some fun engaging and discussing with whoever happens to put in the effort in the comments section below.
We Talk Friday Ep. 21: Blue Eyed Crossed
I haven't WTF'd for a few weeks, so I thought I would pick it up with a little political question for Trump supporters. There are plenty here on Hive and they have often been outspoken on a number of topics, including often citing various conspiracies about Jewish global domination and Zionists and lot of antisemitic trope. My question is,
When Netanyahu says, you aren't MAGA unless you support Israel, how do you feel?
It is pretty obvious the Trump administration is supporting the Israeli position, so does this change your mind about Trump, or about Israel, or about anything at all? Do you compartmentalise these events so you don't feel the conflict, or do you change the story you tell yourself to consolidate the conflicting positions into some kind of coherent end game theory?
Get ten people in a room and you will have ten different belief systems, even if much of it overlaps. However, a belief system with clear evidence to the contrary proving it false, makes it a delusion, doesn't it? The "delusional left" is a good example of how truth can be lost in favour of opinion, and the "delusional right" is giving a second opinion in support of being delusional.
I have always found it interesting how we as humans can hold two conflicting beliefs simultaneously, and find ways to overcome the cognitive dissonance it creates. We are masters of avoidance, seeing what we want to see, rather than what is actually there in front of us.
It is possible to avoid the dissonance by focusing on what Netanyahu said and saying he is wrong, but the fact still remains that Trump is in obvious support of what is some pretty questionable behaviour, from a group that many Trump supporters are (or were) heavily against earlier.
Do you feel betrayed?
Perhaps not. Maybe instead you focus on the parts he is doing that you supported earlier, like with deporting immigrants. But, is it possible to ignore all the other conflicts?
I don't know.
But I am interested in hearing what people think of all of this, whether Trump supporter or not, because I believe that discussing things openly is an integral part of a healthy society. So many of the problems we have, is because of social suppression of the conversations we should be having publicly. I don't care "what side" you are on, I am interested in how it all makes you feel.
Taraz
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I feel that world governments are getting it wrong with the Gaza situation. The goal is to restore peace to the troubled region by any means possible. Taking sides in such a way that prolongs the conflict is nothing but childish. I used to be an avid Trump supporter, but after some years of watching the man my support for him began to wane. I think Trump finds peaceful cohabitation difficult. If you are not on his side, you're the enemy, this can be seen from his divisive influence among US politicians (anyone who doubts this should go and compare the concession speech of John MCCain when he lost to Obama and the concession speech of Trump after he lost to Biden, mind you McCain was Republican like Trump, mind you McCain was Republican like Trump). For that I don't think that Trump' will ever advocate for peaceful cohabitation in the Gaza situation which is the only sensible thing that can bring peace to the troubled region. Anyone who disagrees should bring forward a better solution.
It is the position of a toddler, isn't it? The thing is, he hasn't changed at all as a person. This was always him.
I think supporters of his have gotten very good at compartmentalization. The fact that they can laugh or shrug off half the stuff he says is proof of that. There always seems to be an excuse.
Yeah, this is what I suspect. There is enough that "supports" their beliefs, that they can ignore the rest as if it is collateral damage, not intentional.
I think the relationship between political backing and ethical challenges can be complicated, particularly with figures like Trump and Netanyahu involved.
I don't think there are any ethics in politics, because they all believe they are right enough that they should be the ones to lead.
In my opinion, at all times the US administration has always supported Israel. Personally, I don’t remember when it was the other way around.
It always has. My question is for the many Trump supporters who dislike Israel and believe in the Jewish conspiracies.
In my opinion, Trump is a hard-line person who will do anything to gain power. In his attempt to show that the United States is a world power, he will not hesitate to impose economic sanctions and exert strong influence on the government of the country in question if some countries oppose it. In addition, he will not hesitate to show military power, whether by air or sea. Since Israel is a constant Trump supporter, Trump is ready to provide military support at any time.
I am not sure if Israel is, or Netanyahu is.
In the US, not only the Trump administration but also previous administrations have supported Israel. If the Democrats take control, they will continue to support Israel. There is clearly a very strong Israel lobby in the US.
Israel, because it is powerful in many ways, reacts very strongly to violence. If the Palestinians were as powerful, we would see the same violence from them. They erected a statue of the murderous Saddam Hussein on their own land. He was a filthy criminal who bombed and poisoned his own people.
I don't know who is right and who is wrong in the Israeli-Palestinian war. When you listen to both sides separately, everyone is right in their own way. But when children are dying, no one is right.
Yes there is. But among Trump supporters, there is a very strong anti-Israel contingent also. The kinds of people who would normally be up in arms at the actions of Israel.
It is the same all over the world, war or not.
Those people who believe in Jewish globalist cabal are very strong Trump supporters. You know what they say when Trump clearly sides with Israel? "God works in mysterious ways"
I’m not a Trump supporter, but I find it fascinating how people handle conflicting beliefs, like you said.
It’s tough to see someone you back align with something you might question, like Israel’s actions. I think many just focus on the parts they agree with, like immigration, to avoid the dissonance.
It’s human nature to cherry-pick what fits our view. I’d love to hear how others wrestle with this—open talk is the best way to sort through these messy issues. Great post, gets you thinking!
I am not a Trump supporter. I came to the conclusion that you can't argue about Trump using logic. Trump says a lot of things and a lot of the things he said completely contradicted each other.
One thing that he said that is completely true and helps understand his phenomenon is that if he shot someone during broad day light on a busy street he would not loose any supporters.
That is true and is because Trump is a religion and you can't argue with religious beliefs. If you try to prosecute a messiah you make things worse because you create a martyr.
I am NO Trump supporter.. I don't consider myself a follower of politics at all, but the world sure has its fill of bad things happening now.. :(
I can't see why supporting Israel is key to "Make America Great Again." But I'm not from the US, so there are things I miss.
There are always key factors that are necessary to identify with a group, ground rules and values that you have to comply with. Especially in politics we can't be 100% agreeing with someone, or at least I think so - that would be very rare. We can try to glorify a politician and defend them against dissent, but to always just agree with everything is a superficial support, it's idolizing the politician and adapting to their values instead of using one's own values to judge the actions. Which is happening way more than I'm comfortable with.
I never agree 100% with a political party, and some things of the one I vote for are just stupid, and the politicians in the party say and do stupid things - from my perspective. And that's how it should be. Humans should be able to rationally judge a government. But ratio is out of the game now, it's all emotion.