Hive Ecosystem | Data on Curation Groups & KE Ratios!

Hey, I saw this post because I was tagged. Did you see my data about rewards : word count? I think it might provide some additional inputs and broader insights for your post:

https://peakd.com/hive-133987/@holoz0r/posts-word-count-rewards-communities-and-other-weekly-analytical-reports-2nd-week-of-july

I would argue that

a) Not every post is equal
b) they should be assessed against their peers
c) KE based curation would not serve to appropriately award those who are putting in a great deal of effort and actively have their ke go from big number to small number
d) There is already a great deal of nepotism on HIVE

An example, from my personal circumstances, with a KE of ~6.1.

I took a lot of my HP into Splinterlands, and it never came back again :) It came out from Splinterlands, and went into buying various photographic gear, which I put back into HIVE posts.

I definitely agree with you that there is way too much of a free lunch on HIVE, but my argument is that it might be the autovoters getting a lot of that free lunch.

We need more manual curation, and more encouragement of the genuine engagement that users participate in through initiatives like topcomment, for example.

After all, HIVE is a social platform. If we do not have people genuinely engaged in discussion, creativity, sharing, and other things, they will leave. I've been on Steem (and HIVE) for almost 9 years now, I have lost so many people in those years.

So many people who create content that is on par or if not better than most of the content I see in trending daily that is published (and voted for) by users with low KE scores.

I can also posit something else, which may be a dangerous statement to make: perhaps those with a low KE, with large, and high HP, and lots of friends in similar situations, may indeed feel threatened by the prospect of higher quality content trimming down their own earnings.

KE may not be the point of discussion, but there's one thing that I have observed.

People who are going to create things, are going to create things - whether there is a reward or not. Whether they choose to publish it exclusively to HIVE is another matter all together.

There are shit posts, and then there are shit posts yours is neither of them, and I look forward to seeing what sort of discussions it raises in the comments during the coming days :)

Congratulations @costanza! You received a personal badge!

Happy Hive Birthday! You are on the Hive blockchain for 8 years!

_{You can view your badges on your board and compare yourself to others in the Ranking}

I got 0.84 on Heruvim1978 and 0.13 on Mightyrocklee

So, the lower it is the better, right?

🌄Good morning (here), @costanza! ☕

While I seldom write anything these days, it may interest you to know I do still glance through my feed, from time to time. And I do open and read posts. You have always been a good content creator and someone whose opinion I value. Along with others who faithfully continue to labor away at creating content "in here," I was interested to know what you had to say about the current ... "state of affairs" ... when it comes to the Hive blockchain and the associated market price for HIVE.

Having expressed my own view sometime ago, by "voting" with my feet, I have distilled my view of the potential future of HIVE's price down to comparing it to BTC and seeing where HIVE is in the ranking of TVL in comparison with others:

^{Source: CMC on Hive webpage}

Dropping down further, from its ranking at #293, shown in a comment I made earlier in the year (on what I consider to be one of ... if not the most ... value destroying aspects of the Hive blockchain), it will come as no surprise to me to see this trend continue.

For the sake of all of those for whom I have considerable respect and admiration, still faithfully laboring away, I will be happy to be proven wrong.

_{P.S. Latest POL content now created ... 😉}

Great analysis. For a professional curator (professional in that way, that there are many users following it in a curation trail) to upvote posts of users with a KE of >20 should be a no-go or a rare exception.
Seems like in this case it is a rule rather. Not good.
For me as investor a reason to not follow @curangel, let alone delegate to it.

I am wondering if the curation generally would look more careful at such leachers (at least I do), if they would dump less Hive on the market to increase their KE? It would be an experiment worth doing!

I have invested my time, effort, and money into this chain and projects on this chain over the last seven years, but I see no value in putting any further effort into posting when people can come around and wipe you out for "reasons."

If someone chooses not to vote a post, for whatever reason, all good, it's their stake. People going around downvoting because someone has a number bigger than the random number they picked in their head is just a different form of abuse.

The focus on KE you've illustrated here is just a further symptom of obsession with rewards and the rewards pool.

If people want to use their earnings for something other than parking it as I have foolishly done, let them. If there's any real value to be had here, they'd want to stay.

Splinterlands actually made KE under 3 a requirement for their curation through the efforts of @azircon. Perhaps other curation groups should do the same. Some exceptions are obviously warranted, but in general a review of author KE ratio and encouragement to not extract everything would be beneficial to Hive.

I love to read posts like this, one that tackles real Hive issues. It’s always nice to read valuable comments and pick a thing or two from them.

All thanks to this post I went to check my KE again and it’s pretty good.

It’s your Hive anniversary @costanza congratulations!!🥳🥳

A balance between contribution and healing. I certainly understand the difficulties and needs of those who take out more than they put in or contribute; sometimes they have emergencies they need to address. I understood that if I don't contribute, we all don't grow.

Un equilibrio entre aporte y curación. Sin duda alguna entiendo las dificultades y necesidades de los que sacan más de lo que meten o aportan, a veces tienen emergencias que necesitan solventar. Yo entendi que si no aporto no crecemos todos.

It’s a fairly good data gathering. It is missing some plots, if I get a few minutes I can help with that :)

First of all I think it's absolutely wild that I've never seen you on Hive before, so, hello. I honestly don't know how that happens.

There's probably not much more to add that @qwerrie and @holoz0r haven't said and that I agree with, nevertheless I'll add my two bits.

I am absolutely not a data person, and any metrics like this make me disappear to an alternative plane until the posts shifts to something I understand 😜 but what I do know is that the KE number pisses me off. A lot. It's just another metric to me that doesn't tell the whole story of what a person does on Hive, though I concede it does give us a starting point.

By now, I could have nearly 100 k of Hive like some of the seven to eight year people here that have cleverly invested, bought, and been upvotes by whales to be able to do that.

But my KE (tbh I don't even know if it's reasonable) has been affected by selling to swap Hive for BTC which, because I did that at the right time, helped pay off the last of my mortgage. I also needed some when times got a little tough.

Mine hovers around 30 k because I think that's a reasonable investment for me - personally, it shows I have skin in the game, my vote is okay, and I have some HBD earning interest. It's my sovereign right over my own HIVE to do that.

it should be way harder for those who have been here for years not holding a fair share of their earnings as Hive Power to give back to earn anything.

I imagine you'd need more defining parameters than that. There is absolutely people here that benefit from, as Holozr put it, nepotism, and it's soul crushing to see massive upvotes on posts that don't do much at all. Autovotes too are an issue, more, imo, than DVs. I benefit from autovotes though - I appreciate the ones I have because they keep me here somewhat, as does larger curation, but I'm just a little fish and very rarely get the super votes above 50 HP. Most are from people I like to think autovote me because they know I'm a good player that invests in Hive in many ways.

So yes, investment in Hive takes so many forms that the KE number doesn't reflect. Does the person being curated:

a) produce good content
B) engage with comments
C) engage with other posts
D) run a community in a dedicated way
E) encourage engagement through initiatives like writing challenges, comment rewards etc
D) delegate to others to help them grow
E) encourage and help newbies

And more I can't think of right now.

I've given up thinking Hive will moon, BUT, I'm happy if it's consistently at a certain amount, like .50 (I'm on AUD). The attraction for me is, and always has been, the SOCIAL aspect, which starts with cool content - even if it's poorly written with blurry photos, if it's interesting, I'm happy. I don't want to go into the warm and fuzzy data - you know what I mean.

I was going to leave Hive for good four years ago. Started the wallet process. Yet here I am, because of the warm and fuzzies. I stopped with the wallet and price obsessing and focused on what I really got out of it. I rarely engage with negatives. But I'm here because good friend @holoz0r called me to this post, and here I am commenting instead of knitting, which I must get on with.

Well after thinking about it for hours, someone told me to be careful with what you are going to say and inside don't end up killing your account remember that for them you are a zero on the left like many, the votes seem to always go to the same people, this is not to offend you but in my opinion the KE indicator is useless I have seen people with a very high one and they receive large votes but woe to those who have a low incador number and also make quality content and still are not taken into account by any curator, anyway this is ocean definitely very confusing 😕

I didn't understand if it was good or not.

@friendlymoose got quite the conversation going on this topic earlier this year and I believe is working on something that they're hoping will be helpful to curators in selecting who best to curate.

Anyway, the conversations from that post got me talking with a few people from different parts of the world which gave me some insight into what a complex issue this is, particularly along ethical lines. It's ironic that the people who would benefit the most from Hive increasing in value are the very ones who end up having to withdraw from the ecosystem regularly. Many certainly try as much as possible to keep Hive staked when they can to contribute back to others on Hive where they can, but they are in tight situations where they might suddenly need to power down. If there was something positive they could do to increase Hive's value they would certainly jump on it.

What's really needed here are solutions that anyone can apply to increase Hive's value. At the moment the only solution generally given is that people need to buy Hive and the amount of people who can afford to take that risk are a small fraction of the people on here and they are mostly the ones in developed countries. I looked at the idea of converting Hive to HBD and the method that takes 3 days burns the Hive to create HBD. It seems like a good way to reduce the availability of Hive, but it increases the availability of HBD instead (which would need to be balanced out to maintain the peg) and it works both ways anyway. Perhaps something desirable could be created that requires Hive to purchase it and the Hive used is then burned; rather like Splinterlands does for DEC. I don't have the imagination to think what, unfortunately.

The problem I see with using something like KE to decide who the curation projects will vote or not vote is that I don't really think it will make that much impact if there is still not much reason to buy Hive. It will just change how they curate a bit and cause the usual bickering about the ethics of it, but then it will be business as usual when it comes to the Hive price. We'll continue creating Hive in the pool each day and distributing it, just to slightly different people, perhaps.

If it's any consolation the curation projects don't actually give huge votes out in comparison to some whales. Ocd has metrics in place to decide who they curate, so for example someone just dropping a post and not interacting will not be a candidate. I try to carry these principles over to what I curate at curangel as well. The team at ocd are fantastic at working together to weed out abuse and farming as well.

I think Holoz0r makes a good point about the social aspect of hive being important. If it was just about monetary value then we may as well just be a stand alone alt coin. While I'm in a developed country I don't have the spare fiat to invest in Hive, but I also don't have the incentive to take from Hive, because it has too little value to help me out much. So I decided early on that my focus would be the social side and building HP to be able to actually have some form of vote impact where it could help out. I now also play around with my liquid Hive either literally on Splinterlands or by dabbling on Hive Engine.

We have a world of people on here so there are always going to be a wide range of reasons to be here and a wide range of circumstances behind them. We can't expect everyone to come to the same stances as us and I certainly wouldn't want to try and force that when the concept behind this was always decentralisation. As others have already said, KE doesn't really say much about a user it just gives a snapshot of their current give/take status. It's an interesting tool that could be useful as part of an overview, however.