Knowing what you don't know
Raise your hand if you know what a Listserv is. According to Google, "a listserv is an email-based mailing list. When you send a message to one shared email address, the system automatically duplicates and distributes that message to all subscribed members". By today's standards, it's a pretty antiquated system, but it works and despite all the other options available for communication, listservs are still used across the globe.
I mention this because I myself am a member of a listserv. I have been for close to 25 years now and it's safe to say that listserv is just as active today as it was when I first joined all those years ago. Perhaps even more active. The listserv is comprised of education technology professionals from across the state where I work. It started off as just top level members of the technology team, but it as since expanded to all levels of user including general techs and classroom coaches.
Despite that, we still call it the "tech directors listserv".
The funny thing is, we have a Discord server too, but that is relatively dead compared to the amount of interaction that takes place via email on the listserv.
It's funny because technology is so expansive. Even though I know a little bit about a lot of things, there is still so much I don't know about a lot of things. You might find a rare person who seems to know a lot about a lot, but as I said, those people are rare, so pay attention when you come across them.
I feel like I post on the tech listserv a lot. I also feel a lot of times that the questions I have are stupid. Well, I used to more than I do now. I'm starting to change my attitude on it and accept the fact that I know what I don't know, and that is okay. I have a feeling a lot of times when I post on the listserv people see my name and they say "oh man, not this guy again". There are a lot of times my questions get virtually no replies.
I still haven't figured out if that's because it's a dumb question, or it's just so obscure that nobody actually knows the answer.
In the past, I might have let stuff like that bug me (okay, it still bugs me a bit), but then I have experiences like I did this past fall, and I don't feel so bad. I've mentioned before that every Autumn, I head to a conference in northern Michigan. It's a two to three day event where all the education technology professionals from across the state meet up and learn new things together.
Yes, there are vendors there, but we also have peer led sessions that teach us about cool tips, tricks, applications, and software that we may have not known about before. While I have group of people that I generally hang out with, it never fails that you end up talking to people you have never met before as well.
Not something I am strong at.
However, this past year, I can't remember how many new people may have not known my face, but as soon as they saw my name they were like oh "Bozz from the tech listserv". I still haven't figured out if that is a good thing or a bad thing, but they seemed to indicate it was a good thing.
Of course, maybe they were just being nice.
Like I said though, I had several people say something to the effect that they appreciate the honest questions that I ask on the tech listserv sometimes. They always say there is no such thing as a dumb question, and while I don't necessarily agree with that (I've heard some really dumb questions in my lifetime), I also have occasions where I don't mind being the dummy to ask them.
My thinking is, there is likely someone else who is struggling with the same concept. While it might be fairly easy to some people, it will never be easy for me if I don't ask. In these days of Google, and AI, it might seem like resources like this are less necessary, but I feel there is something special about getting the answer from one of my colleagues. Perhaps it's just the way they explain it, or more likely it's something more emotional.
It's that solidarity you get with groups like this saying "we are in this together", or "you are not alone". You don't outright say it, but the process of posting to the listserv and getting replies speaks for itself.
Long story short (TL:DR), never be afraid to ask those simple questions. You might just become infamous for them.
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I was going to mention the face, but you went there later. For me, it is my face they shy away from.
From a training perspective, when a class is silent, it means they don't know what the hell is going on :)
I guess the silence goes both ways. At the conference they sometimes do "break-out sessions" and it gets so loud it is impossible to hear the person talking next to you.
I think many people hesitate to ask questions because they don’t want to appear uninformed. In fact, the questions we ask often revolve around events that leave many people with unanswered questions. Knowledge can be acquired at any age. Culture and education develop as people share what they’ve learned, gain experience, and acquire new knowledge through research.
That is probably true. I think we need to not be so worried about that though. I'd rather look dumb but gain some knowledge then look smart and go on with my life being dumb.
I've been on some mailing lists, but not joined one in a long time. I would prefer not to need lots of proprietary apps for talking to people and email is very standard. I've been known to ask questions on Stack Exchange and sometimes got good answers.
I don't get to go to any technical conferences for work and I probably missed out on stuff. I've been to some Linux ones as well as the HiveFests.
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I'd love to go to more of them that are outside of the education space. Still technology, but not education. Our hands are tied by so many rules and regulations when it comes to public education.
Where I work they don't go for the latest flashy stuff so I'm a bit out of touch. Not even got into AI things. I'm at the tail end of my career, so may not be a big issue.
I'm kind of the same on both counts. We don't really have the budget to have the latest and greatest stuff.
I see listservs being used for many, many more decades. Email isn't going away, so there will always be a benefit to it.
I stopped worrying about whether questions I asked seemed dumb or not. I've had more than a handful of questions I've asked that were simple, yet brought up details others had overlooked, like "Should we maybe give our Teams channels short descriptions so people know which types of posts or questions go where?"
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We are curious by nature, so it shouldn't be shunned to explore that.
Exactly!
I don’t know anything….🤣
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Not true! You know so much about silver and woodworking/building!
Yeah I do remember those! Been a long old time since I’ve even thought about them. Were great back in the day.
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STOPI've been on a couple before I knew what they were and they were lost in history with my changing interests and email addresses.
There might be a couple but given the volume you indicated for the listserv I'm going to hazard that there are far more people thinking OH THANK GOODNESS SOMEONE ELSE KNEW HOW TO PHRASE THIS QUESTION because
And I would also lean into obscure as having researched many questions online I have often found people with the literal exact same problem as me asking their questions on Reddit or Stack Overflow or some forum with the exact same complete lack of responses. Dumb questions are really easy to answer so a lot of people with answer them even if they're being snarky arseholes telling you to "here I googled it for you" (okay congratulations you used a godawful known biased search engine to look for terms that are easy for you but might have been completely unknown to the asker) or otherwise "get informed" (which I mean fair they've probably encountered the people who don't actually bother looking and just expect someone to give them the exact answer they need but there's also the people who may have even tried but otherwise have no idea what they're supposed to be looking for).
having been on the receiving end of that the few times I did ask a question and also having been in a lot of geeky circles my respect levels for the people who think they're smart or cool for responding in that fashion kind of drops by an unfair amount, I give some leeway if I recognise the name enough to figure they're probably having a bad day that they really shouldn't be taking out on other people but most of us are some level of human
Given that they learn from resources like the listserv (if publicly accessible otherwise it's the slowly dying forums because "everyone" just wants to ask Google/AI so they don't have to "look stupid" for not magically somehow knowing already) there will be a point where you're going to ask the AI and it will invent some answer that may accidentally be correct but more likely be wildly wrong because there is nothing to draw from.
oh wait maybe all those proprietary messaging systems
I'm vaguely curious if there will be a swing back to all this archaic nonsense then.
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I always kind of let people know that yes, I could have just Googled this, but I wanted to ask you guys first because you know where I am coming from and my specific circumstances. Great points you made and I am glad I am not alone! I think email would have to get popular again for listservs to really pick back up.
The Listserv example is a good reminder that technology knowledge is generational.
A tool can be obvious to one group and completely invisible to another, even if the underlying idea still exists in a newer form. Mailing lists did a lot of what group chats, newsletters, and communities do now, just with a different interface.
Knowing what you do not know is probably the healthier position. It leaves room to ask better questions instead of pretending every old tool is obsolete.
Yep.
No such thing as a dumb question. In fact to the contrary for me the dumn ones are often the ones nodding wjen they haven't a clue in reality and are afraid to ask a question. I've no problem stopping someone when an acronym or technical point does not make sense to me or I'll paraphrase them to ensure that my understanding is correct.
This Listserv is better than AI in plenty of ways, as you are getting answers from people who have had the exact same issues, rather than a statistical probability based on large data sets that AI returns. Doing both would be my advice and you wont go far wrong. Remember you also built up some relationships on Listserv, with those randomers knowing who you were from your previous questions.
Another point is that asking your questions probably helped many others who were not comfortable asking the same question..
Very good points! It's funny how things kind of fall out of favor then come back into it over time. It's like fashion! Oh by the way, my brother in law just bought a new condo. I've been waiting for the right time to tell you... This is the view out his back patio.
Get out of town!! How sweet is that? Congrats to him 👏🏻
What I hate most is the gatekeeper who smugly acts as if you should already know something, and treats their field as a gnostic mystic sect where outsiders should be made unwelcome until inducted into the mysteries. "Stupid" questions prevent stupid actions if people aren't treated like stupid people for just not knowing something.
Very good points!